tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post4279056324285094205..comments2024-02-15T05:45:04.193-06:00Comments on Cwyn's Death By Tea: GoodfellasCwynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17990034926886208526noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-28750406945470739222014-11-21T15:51:10.628-06:002014-11-21T15:51:10.628-06:00I do think, especially past 2008, that women have ...I do think, especially past 2008, that women have been progressively shoved away from the limelight as the money rolled in and all the tuhaos grin for the cameras behind tea ceremony setups.shah8https://www.blogger.com/profile/04537529816304128000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-25566748097664251812014-11-21T14:56:10.808-06:002014-11-21T14:56:10.808-06:00Ah, you hit upon the key word "quietly."...Ah, you hit upon the key word "quietly." Quietly is the number one clue that tells us when we are dealing with a boys club. <br /><br />The glass ceiling in business often has less to do with the actual industry but rather the type of social activities involved in business deals, social activities that women cannot participate in, making footholds difficult to gain and doors to open. Places like the Men's Locker room, male clubs, gentlemen's clubs where the females invited are strippers, not businesswomen. An incredible amount of business deals are made in these settings. Forums like badgerandblade are accessible examples for me to discuss, and interesting that several tea heads I talked to didn't even realize the website is devoted to men's shaving when it is glaringly obvious even on poster avatars.Cwynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17990034926886208526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-90470342560747050792014-11-21T13:26:05.016-06:002014-11-21T13:26:05.016-06:00You wouldn't be the first, at least in the pri...You wouldn't be the first, at least in the price range of the teas we're talking about. The Listening To Leaves woman also bought $xxx.00 cakes and talked about it too. Even stuff like the Zhenchunyahao, which would have been in the $xxxx.00 range. Also, given what I know, I'm pretty sure MarshalN is representing the gender and other traits accurately, and I certainly personally know other women like MarshalN's friend. And they aren't really ones for being "out" in any flashy way, even though they participate in media and public forums just like any other tea lovers (you can find the faces of such women online, but significance won't be pointed out to you). Lastly, when I was thinking tea mogul female buyers, I was really thinking of those women who will pick up a tong of tea for $10k, or buying some 70's tea for as much. However, I think it's to be understood that good examples of teas older than 1980 are not really sold anymore. What's moving are mostly the stuff people could part with, which are mediocre at best.<br /><br />As far as to how actually important women are--Guo Yan and Ruan Dian Rong are two of the more prominent women in the industry, and they aren't particularly fronts. And there are other, more minor figures, who have carved out a niche in tea brands. And in other ways, women quietly have influence, as per, say, Puerhshop Jim, when he talks about having to negotiate the woman who controls the bulk of Mahei production. Perhaps Jim is exaggerating, or things have changed, but there are lots of hints on how women participate in shaping the puerh industry. They may not have remotely any of the sort of equality to men as producers, traders, and consumers, but they do do *much* better than women in many other industries/hobbies.shah8https://www.blogger.com/profile/04537529816304128000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-39263476407200289412014-11-21T12:29:37.193-06:002014-11-21T12:29:37.193-06:00Based on the teas I've photographed for my blo...Based on the teas I've photographed for my blog, I could easily fit the criteria of buying super expensive cakes without blinking an eye. I recall one of your entry posts on badgerandblade said something about the good teas being expensive and the buyer has to "suck it up," which is a phrase I've used and borrowed directly from your post. Perhaps you meant something different in 2012 than today in 2014 but I borrowed it in my discussion of Tea for Old People in reference to Bucket List teas. However, my usage of it refers more to buying tea later in life specifically, when a tea drinker might be looking for unique experiences or to avoid gut bombs. <br /><br />But back to your point, MarshalN's tea buying friend is fictionalized with a female pseudonym, obviously to hide the person's identity. Wouldn't surprise me if the gender is changed also to protect the person's identity, especially if the person might be someone like Cloud, a well-known person or someone with a lot of money. We can't really verify this example.<br /><br />A better one might be the women behind Tealet, who are US based and tea wholesalers. So many of the examples written about in Maliandao, for example, appear to be shop managers or store front owners. Women fronting tea businesses are still somewhat within traditional roles of serving tea. I am sure there are tea buyers in China and agree we are not likely to hear about them, and the reasons have somewhat to do with social role expectations. Cwynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17990034926886208526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-86208835572925856682014-11-21T11:02:28.507-06:002014-11-21T11:02:28.507-06:00Reread that part-
While there are lady collectors...Reread that part-<br /><br />While there are lady collectors with all of the rare stuff, like the woman MarshalN befriended in the early days of his blog, and there are some serious women players in making tea/history (tea business much friendlier to women than other occupations in China...), and there are certainly rich women, like the ones you see on Tony Chen's Facebook page, who'll buy hyper-expensive tea without blinking an eye, I don't think you see very many women who are "in your face/in the public eye" buyers and sellers of tea, and with regard to that, I think issues of women in media is probably a bigger problem than women in tea/tea business.shah8https://www.blogger.com/profile/04537529816304128000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-51204694499948788672014-11-21T10:54:34.335-06:002014-11-21T10:54:34.335-06:00Hobbes likes to project a bit o' that brit cou...Hobbes likes to project a bit o' that brit country boy masculinity...shah8https://www.blogger.com/profile/04537529816304128000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-79984727907846791082014-11-21T04:40:46.256-06:002014-11-21T04:40:46.256-06:00Well maybe you can show me references to some lady...Well maybe you can show me references to some lady tea moguls? <br /><br />As for Steepster, the real discussions go on behind the public forums on logs. You have to friend the people to get their log updates. There are long time puerh drinkers who mainly post in their logs or those of others.Cwynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17990034926886208526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-53949648426172050012014-11-21T04:37:09.412-06:002014-11-21T04:37:09.412-06:00Not sure what there would be to fight about, we se...Not sure what there would be to fight about, we seem to pick a number of the same teas. It is more of an issue for me to make sure I don't overlap reviews with other bloggers if I can help it, for the sake of tea readers to have some variety in their reading. Cwynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17990034926886208526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-47796880209758963242014-11-21T02:11:34.055-06:002014-11-21T02:11:34.055-06:00Ah, forgot, there are most definitely female tea m...Ah, forgot, there are most definitely female tea moguls around. They just go about doing their thing and not particularly brag about too much. You can spot one or two, but they comment quite irregularly.<br /><br />We have had vague discussions about representative numbers of women in tea before. Nothing too serious, though...<br /><br />For me, I do not pay much attention to Steepster aside from the puerh of the day thread because most of the commentators aren't that interested in the teas I'm interested in. Also, I don't really trust opinions by people who haven't been drinking for awhile. It takes a really long time, to me, before you get much of a bearing on understanding what's a good puerh. I did not notice that participation had more women, though. I certainly didn't recognize about just how male the Badger and Blade was, even in the puerh topics, until this post pointed that out.shah8https://www.blogger.com/profile/04537529816304128000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-46273527940611589042014-11-21T02:00:06.533-06:002014-11-21T02:00:06.533-06:00Let's you and Hobbes fight.Let's you and Hobbes fight.<br /><br />shah8https://www.blogger.com/profile/04537529816304128000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-45247766715402275942014-11-21T00:48:00.612-06:002014-11-21T00:48:00.612-06:00Regardless of the area of tea industry, I think it...Regardless of the area of tea industry, I think it is hard for women to break in, whether it is the academy, or buying and selling aside from the traditional shopgirl and service roles. Thanks for stopping by!Cwynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17990034926886208526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373256628108442713.post-73601769031877229582014-11-20T17:04:07.601-06:002014-11-20T17:04:07.601-06:00Great post. I'll say right off that I'm al...Great post. I'll say right off that I'm also a dude (who shaves). Though maybe unlike many tea nerds I also geek out about a lot of other beverages, I'm drinking some awesome coffee right now actually :) Related to this post, I've noted a suspicious lack of female voices/industry presence/active connoisseurship(?) in pretty much all of these worlds, be it tea, craft beer, wine, "third-wave" coffee, craft cocktails etc, to say nothing of the strange lack of famous female chefs. Obviously this is not because women are inferior tasters or that they somehow lack connoisseurship abilities, in fact the opposite is the probably more accurate; men are stereotypically more egotistical and narrow-minded, and to me, nothing gets more in the way of honest tasting/assessment/appreciation. I'm guessing it's probably mostly an extension of male dominance/sexism and exclusion in the business realm that's mostly to blame. Also maybe a societal thing wherein there's an expectation that women ought to be more passive and less outspoken about their preferences, differing instead to (male) experts. Whatever the reasons, the situation must be changed!Ian Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06524043049575023153noreply@blogger.com